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Ted演講:我是如何愛上一條魚的?美食家的蜜月

kira86 于2019-06-14發布 l 已有人瀏覽
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廚師丹?巴伯爾通過嚴謹的調查和幽默的方式講述了他尋求一條值得喜愛的“可持續性魚”的過程,以及自從發現了一種在西班牙用非傳統的方式養殖出來的極其美味的魚之后,他就深深愛上了這條魚。
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Dan Barber: How I fell in love with a fish

丹•巴伯爾(DanBarber):我是如何愛上一條魚的

So, I've known a lot of fish in my life. I've loved only two. That first one, it was more like a passionate affair. It was a beautiful fish: flavorful, textured, meaty, a bestseller on the menu. What a fish. (Laughter) Even better, it was farm-raised to the supposed highest standards of sustainability. So you could feel good about selling it.

我一生中接觸過很多魚。只有兩種是我的最愛。第一種,是源于激情。它是一條美麗的魚,美味,紋理細膩,肉質豐富,是菜單上最受歡迎的魚。多么美的魚啊!(笑聲)更好的是,它是依照最高標準養殖的,目的是保持它的可持續性的。而賣他的人也會感到心安理得。

I was in a relationship with this beauty for several months. One day, the head of the company called and asked if I'd speak at an event about the farm's sustainability. "Absolutely," I said. Here was a company trying to solve what's become this unimaginable problem for us chefs: How do we keep fish on our menus?

我曾經沉醉于這美麗的關系中,時間大概延續了幾個月。有一天,這個公司的高層打電話給我邀請我參加一個活動并就漁業的可持續性發展發表演說。我說,“當然可以”。這個公司正是要試圖解決一個對于我們廚師來說正在變得不可想象的問題。“我們如何把魚類留在菜單上?”

For the past 50 years, we've been fishing the seas like we clear-cut forests. It's hard to overstate the destruction. Ninety percent of large fish, the ones we love -- the tunas, the halibuts, the salmons, swordfish -- they've collapsed. There's almost nothing left. So, for better or for worse, aquaculture, fish farming, is going to be a part of our future. A lot of arguments against it: Fish farms pollute -- most of them do anyway -- and they're inefficient. Take tuna, a major drawback. It's got a feed conversion ratio of 15 to one. That means it takes fifteen pounds of wild fish to get you one pound of farm tuna. Not very sustainable. It doesn't taste very good either.

在過去的50年中,我們從各個海洋中捕魚就像是砍伐樹木。絕不是夸大它的破壞性。90%的大型魚類,那些我們喜愛的種類,金槍魚,大比目魚,三鮭魚,劍魚,他們都要滅絕了。幾乎沒有多少剩下了。所以,不管是好是壞,水產養殖業,養魚業,都會成為我們未來的一部分。有很多針對這個行業的言論。其實它們大部分都是關于養魚業會污染環境,而且效率很低,比如說金槍魚。最大的弊病就是,養殖金槍魚的飼料轉換率是15比1。這個意思是說,每生產1磅金槍魚肉要耗費15磅用其他野生魚類做的飼料。這可不是很具有可持續發展性。而且也不好吃。

So here, finally, was a company trying to do it right. I wanted to support them. The day before the event, I called the head of P.R. for the company. Let's call him Don.

最后,這個公司想做些正確事情。我也想支持他們。在那次活動的前一天,我聯系了公司的公關部門頭頭。就讓我們暫且稱呼他為“唐閣下”。

Don, I said, "just to get the facts straight, you guys are famous for farming so far out to sea, you don't pollute."

我說:“唐閣下,據我說知,事實是這樣的,你們在海洋捕魚業十分出名,而且你們不會產生污染。”

That's right, he said. "We're so far out, the waste from our fish gets distributed, not concentrated." And then he added, "We're basically a world unto ourselves. That feed conversion ratio? 2.5 to one," he said. "Best in the business."

他回應:“你說的對。我們作業的地點很遠,我們捕魚所產生的污染物都被稀釋掉了,不會集中殘留在一個地方。”然后他補充到,“我們算得上是獨樹一幟。飼料轉換率?2.5比1,”他說。“行業中最好的。”

2.5 to one, great. "2.5 what? What are you feeding?"

2.5比1,很好。“什么2.5比1?你們在喂什么?”

Sustainable proteins, he said.

他回答道:“可持續性蛋白質”。

Great, I said. Got off the phone. And that night, I was lying in bed, and I thought: What the hell is a sustainable protein? (Laughter)

我說:“很好”。然后掛了電話。結果那晚,我躺在床上想:可持續性蛋白質是什么鬼東西?(笑聲)

So the next day, just before the event, I called Don. I said, "Don, what are some examples of sustainable proteins?"

所以第二天,就在那個活動之前,我打電話給唐閣下。我問道:'唐閣下,你有沒有一些可持續性蛋白質的例子?"

He said he didn't know. He would ask around. Well, I got on the phone with a few people in the company; no one could give me a straight answer until finally, I got on the phone with the head biologist. Let's call him Don too. (Laughter)

他說他不知道。他會去問問周圍的人。然后,我和這個公司里的一些人通了電話。但是沒有人能給我一個明確的答案。直到最后,我通上了電話對方是生物學專家。讓我也暫且叫他“唐閣下”。(笑聲)

Don, I said, "what are some examples of sustainable proteins?"

我說:“唐閣下”“可以舉例說明一下可持續性蛋白質嗎?”

Well, he mentioned some algaes and some fish meals, and then he said chicken pellets. I said, "Chicken pellets?"

恩,他提到了一些藻類還有一些魚食,然后他提到雞丸。我問道:“雞丸?”

He said, "Yeah, feathers, skin, bone meal, scraps, dried and processed into feed."

他說,“是,羽毛,雞皮,骨骼,排泄物,被曬干加工后添入飼料。”

I said, "What percentage of your feed is chicken?" Thinking, you know, two percent.

我說:“雞在飼料中的比例是多少?”想一下,你知道,2%。

Well, it's about 30 percent, he said.

結果他說:“恩,大概占30%,”

I said, "Don, what's sustainable about feeding chicken to fish?" (Laughter)

我說,“唐閣下,用雞喂魚,這算什么可持續發展性?”(笑聲)

There was a long pause on the line, and he said, "There's just too much chicken in the world." (Laughter)

電話的那邊安靜了很長時間,然后他對我說,“世界上就是有太多的雞了。”(笑聲)

I fell out of love with this fish. (Laughter) No, not because I'm some self-righteous, goody-two shoes foodie. I actually am. (Laughter) No, I actually fell out of love with this fish because, I swear to God, after that conversation, the fish tasted like chicken. (Laughter)

于是,我不再愛這個魚了。(笑聲)不,不是因為我是個自以為是,偽善的美食家。其實我是這樣的人。(笑聲)不,我不再愛這個魚了,是因為,我向上帝發誓,在那次對話之后,那個魚嘗起來更像雞。(笑聲)

This second fish, it's a different kind of love story. It's the romantic kind, the kind where the more you get to know your fish, you love the fish. I first ate it at a restaurant in southern Spain. A journalist friend had been talking about this fish for a long time. She kind of set us up. (Laughter) It came to the table a bright, almost shimmering, white color. The chef had overcooked it. Like twice over. Amazingly, it was still delicious.

這第二條魚,它則是另一種不同的愛情故事。是很浪漫的那種,那種你越多了解你的魚,你就越愛它。我第一次在一個飯店中吃到這種魚,位置在西班牙南部。很久以前一個記者朋友和我說過這里。她可以說是個媒人。(笑聲)那條魚在桌子上很亮,有著光暈,白色的那種。廚師烹飪它的時間過長了。好像是烹飪了兩次。但是太神奇了,它還是很好吃。

Who can make a fish taste good after it's been overcooked? I can't, but this guy can. Let's call him Miguel -- actually his name is Miguel. (Laughter) And no, he didn't cook the fish, and he's not a chef, at least in the way that you and I understand it. He's a biologist at Veta La Palma. It's a fish farm in the southwestern corner of Spain. It's at the tip of the Guadalquivir river.

誰可以做出這樣好吃的魚而且還是在烹飪時間過長的情況下?我不能,但是這個人可以。讓我們叫他米格爾。其實他的名字就是米格爾。(笑聲)但是,他沒有烹調那條魚,他也不是個廚師。至少在你我理解的方式之內他不是。他是一個生物學家在薇塔拉帕爾馬。他是個位于西班牙西南角的養魚場。他就在高達爾克維爾河的尖部。

Until the 1980s, the farm was in the hands of the Argentinians. They raised beef cattle on what was essentially wetlands. They did it by draining the land. They built this intricate series of canals, and they pushed water off the land and out into the river. Well, they couldn't make it work, not economically. And ecologically, it was a disaster. It killed like 90 percent of the birds, which, for this place, is a lot of birds. And so in 1982, a Spanish company with an environmental conscience purchased the land.

直到上個世紀80年代,這個漁場是阿根廷人管轄的。他們在這里養牛那個時候這里基本上是濕地。當時他們把水抽走。然后建造一系列復雜的運河,他們接著把這里的水排入河流。但是,他們沒有成功,我是指經濟方面。而且對周圍的環境造成了巨大的災難。周圍差不多90%的鳥類都消失了,而在這個地區那些是很多的鳥。到了1982年,一家具有環保意識的的西班牙公司購買了這塊地。

What did they do? They reversed the flow of water. They literally flipped the switch. Instead of pushing water out, they used the channels to pull water back in. They flooded the canals. They created a 27,000-acre fish farm -- bass, mullet, shrimp, eel -- and in the process, Miguel and this company completely reversed the ecological destruction. The farm's incredible. I mean, you've never seen anything like this. You stare out at a horizon that is a million miles away, and all you see are flooded canals and this thick, rich marshland.

他們做過什么?他們逆轉了水流的方向。他們基本上是搬動卡關。代替排水,他們用這個水渠來把水引進來。他們用水填滿了這個運河。然后建立了一個27000英畝的漁場--鱸魚,梭魚,蝦,鰻魚-在這個工程中,米格爾,還有這個公司,完全挽救了這次生態災難。這個漁場太了不起了。我的意思是說,你從沒見過類似的地方。我看著地平線它是那么的廣闊,引入您視野的都是被注滿水的河道和這個富饒的沼澤濕地

I was there not long ago with Miguel. He's an amazing guy, like three parts Charles Darwin and one part Crocodile Dundee. (Laughter) Okay? There we are slogging through the wetlands, and I'm panting and sweating, got mud up to my knees, and Miguel's calmly conducting a biology lecture. Here, he's pointing out a rare Black-shouldered Kite. Now, he's mentioning the mineral needs of phytoplankton. And here, here he sees a grouping pattern that reminds him of the Tanzanian Giraffe.

不久前,我和米格爾去過那兒。他是個了不起的人,¾是達爾文,¼是鱷魚鄧迪。(笑聲)我們進入了濕地,而我是氣喘吁吁汗流浹背,淤泥沒到了我的膝蓋,還有米格爾靜靜講述的生物講義。這兒,他指向一只罕見的黑肩鳶。這是,他提到可以滿足礦物質需求的浮游植物。還有這,他看到一組圖案讓人聯想起坦桑尼亞長頸鹿。

It turns out, Miguel spent the better part of his career in the Mikumi National Park in Africa. I asked him how he became such an expert on fish.

結果,米格爾曾經花了很長時間工作在非洲的米庫米國家公園。我問他是怎么成為一位魚類專家的。

He said, "Fish? I didn't know anything about fish. I'm an expert in relationships." And then he's off, launching into more talk about rare birds and algaes and strange aquatic plants.

他說:“魚?我不了解他們。我只是一個關系專家。”然后他發起了更多的對話都是有關于稀有鳥類和藻類還有特殊的水生植物。

And don't get me wrong, that was really fascinating, you know, the biotic community unplugged, kind of thing. It's great, but I was in love. And my head was swooning over that overcooked piece of delicious fish I had the night before. So I interrupted him. I said, "Miguel, what makes your fish taste so good?"

請不要誤解我,那樣的談話真的是引人入勝,關于生物群落一類的事情。這都很好,但是我戀愛了。我腦中始終惦記著那條我前一晚品嘗過被過度烹飪的美味的魚。所以我中斷了他。我說,“米格爾,什么使你的魚那么好吃?"

He pointed at the algae.

他指向藻類。

I know, dude, the algae, the phytoplankton, the relationships: It's amazing. But what are your fish eating? What's the feed conversion ratio?

“我知道,兄弟,藻類,浮游植物,關系,這些都很神奇。但是你的魚吃什么?飼料轉換率是多少??”

Well, he goes on to tell me it's such a rich system that the fish are eating what they'd be eating in the wild. The plant biomass, the phytoplankton, the zooplankton, it's what feeds the fish. The system is so healthy, it's totally self-renewing. There is no feed. Ever heard of a farm that doesn't feed its animals?

然后他繼續告訴我這是一個很富饒的系統,這些魚吃的就是它們在野外吃的東西。植物的生物質,浮游植物,浮游生物,都是魚的飼料。這個系統非常健康,它完全是自我更新的。沒有任何飼料。聽說過一個不喂動物飼料的農場嗎?

Later that day, I was driving around this property with Miguel, and I asked him, I said, "For a place that seems so natural, unlike like any farm I'd ever been at, how do you measure success?"

那天晚些時候,我和米格爾開著車在周圍兜風,我問他,“這樣一個看起來如此自然的地方,”不像其它任何一個我曾經見過的農場,“你如何衡量成功?”

At that moment, it was as if a film director called for a set change. And we rounded the corner and saw the most amazing sight: thousands and thousands of pink flamingos, a literal pink carpet for as far as you could see.

就在那時,仿佛有一位電影導演突然要求改變場景。我們轉過彎看到最美的畫面,成千上萬的粉色火烈鳥,可以說是一張粉色的地毯。

That's success, he said. "Look at their bellies, pink. They're feasting." Feasting? I was totally confused.

他說,“那就是成功。”“看他們的腹部,粉色的。他們正在享受盛宴。”盛宴?我完全迷惑了。

I said, "Miguel, aren't they feasting on your fish?" (Laughter)

我說,“米格爾,他們的盛宴不正是你的魚嗎?”(笑聲)

Yes, he said. (Laughter) "We lose 20 percent of our fish and fish eggs to birds. Well, last year, this property had 600,000 birds on it, more than 250 different species. It's become, today, the largest and one of the most important private bird sanctuaries in all of Europe."

“正是,"他說。(笑聲)“鳥類會吃掉我們20%的魚還有魚卵。而且,去年,這個漁場有600000只鳥,超過250個不同的種群。今天,這里已經成為最大的而且是全歐洲最重要的私有鳥類自然保護區之一。

I said, "Miguel, isn't a thriving bird population like the last thing you want on a fish farm?" (Laughter) He shook his head, no.

我說,“米格爾,這么多的鳥類數量不是一個漁場最不想要到的嗎?”(笑聲)不,他搖搖頭。

He said, "We farm extensively, not intensively. This is an ecological network. The flamingos eat the shrimp. The shrimp eat the phytoplankton. So the pinker the belly, the better the system."

他說,“我們是廣義上的養殖,不是刻意的。這是一個生態網絡。這些火烈鳥吃掉蝦。蝦吃浮游動物。所以他們的肚子上粉色越鮮艷,代表這個系統越好。”

Okay, so let's review: a farm that doesn't feed its animals, and a farm that measures its success on the health of its predators. A fish farm, but also a bird sanctuary. Oh, and by the way, those flamingos, they shouldn't even be there in the first place. They brood in a town 150 miles away, where the soil conditions are better for building nests. Every morning, they fly 150 miles into the farm. And every evening, they fly 150 miles back. (Laughter) They do that because they're able to follow the broken white line of highway A92. (Laughter) No kidding.

好的,讓我們重新審視一下。一個農場不給它的動物喂食,而且它衡量自己的成功是根據它的天敵。一個漁場,同時也是個鳥類庇護所。而且,順便說一句,那些火烈鳥,它們本不應該在那里。它們在城里繁殖而且是在150英里以外的,那里的土壤狀況更加適合做巢。每天早上,它們飛行150英里來到這個漁場。到了晚上,他們在飛行150英里回家。(笑聲)他們這樣做是因為他們能順著A92號高速公路的白線。(笑聲)沒開玩笑。

I was imagining a "March of the Penguins" thing, so I looked at Miguel. I said, "Miguel, do they fly 150 miles to the farm, and then do they fly 150 miles back at night? Do they do that for the children?"

我一直在腦海中想象類似【帝企鵝日記】的事,我看著米格爾。我說,“米格爾,它們飛行150英里來漁場,然后它們晚上再飛150英里回去嗎?它們這么做是為了孩子嗎?”

He looked at me like I had just quoted a Whitney Houston song. (Laughter) He said, "No; they do it because the food's better." (Laughter)

他看著我就像是我剛剛引用了惠特尼休斯頓的歌。(笑聲)他說,“不,他們這么做因為這里的食物更好。”(笑聲)

I didn't mention the skin of my beloved fish, which was delicious -- and I don't like fish skin; I don't like it seared, I don't like it crispy. It's that acrid, tar-like flavor. I almost never cook with it. Yet, when I tasted it at that restaurant in southern Spain, it tasted not at all like fish skin. It tasted sweet and clean, like you were taking a bite of the ocean. I mentioned that to Miguel, and he nodded. He said, "The skin acts like a sponge. It's the last defense before anything enters the body. It evolved to soak up impurities." And then he added, "But our water has no impurities."

我還沒有提到我最愛的魚的皮吧,真的是很美味,而且我通常不喜歡魚皮。我通常不喜歡烤的。我也不喜歡脆的。它有辛辣,像柏油那樣的味道。我從不把它和魚一起做。但是,當我在西班牙南部的那個餐館嘗到它的時候,嘗起來不像是魚皮。它嘗起來微甜而且干凈就像你嘗了一口海洋自然的味道。我向米格爾提到我的想法,他點點頭。他說,“魚皮的作用就像是海綿。它是阻止任何物質進入到體內的最后的防線。它的作用是吸收雜質。”然后他繼續說,“但是我們的水沒有雜質.”

OK. A farm that doesn't feed its fish, a farm that measures its success by the success of its predators. And then I realized when he says, "A farm that has no impurities," he made a big understatement, because the water that flows through that farm comes in from the Guadalquivir River. It's a river that carries with it all the things that rivers tend to carry these days: chemical contaminants, pesticide runoff. And when it works its way through the system and leaves, the water is cleaner than when it entered. The system is so healthy, it purifies the water. So, not just a farm that doesn't feed its animals, not just a farm that measures its success by the health of its predators, but a farm that's literally a water purification plant -- and not just for those fish, but for you and me as well. Because when that water leaves, it dumps out into the Atlantic. A drop in the ocean, I know, but I'll take it, and so should you, because this love story, however romantic, is also instructive. You might say it's a recipe for the future of good food, whether we're talking about bass or beef cattle.

好的。一個漁廠不喂它的魚。一個漁場衡量它的成功是依照它天敵的成功。然后我意識到當他說,一個漁場沒有雜質,他輕描淡寫的說,因為在漁場中流過的水來自于高達爾克維爾河。那條河中含有現在所有的一條河里都有的東西,化學污染物,農藥殘留。然后當它進入這個系統之后離開時,水質變得比來時更干凈。這個系統很衛生,它可以過濾這兒的水。所以,這個漁場不只是不喂動物,不只是衡量它的成功根據天敵的健康狀況,但是是一個漁場基本上還是個水凈化廠,而且不僅僅是為那些魚,更是為了你和我。因為當水離開這里時,它會流入大西洋。我知道,這個作用是十分微薄的,但是我很重視它,而且你們應該也是,因為這個愛情故事,不但浪漫,而且有教育意義。你也許會說它是未來美食的食譜,不管是我們在說鱸魚還是牛肉。

What we need now is a radically new conception of agriculture, one in which the food actually tastes good. (Laughter) (Applause) But for a lot people, that's a bit too radical. We're not realists, us foodies; we're lovers. We love farmers' markets, we love small family farms, we talk about local food, we eat organic. And when you suggest these are the things that will ensure the future of good food, someone, somewhere stands up and says, "Hey guy, I love pink flamingos, but how are you going to feed the world?" How are you going to feed the world?

我們現在需要的是一個全新的農業概念,一種真正的美食。(笑聲)(掌聲)但是對很多人來說,那太極端了。我們不是現實主義者,我們的美食家。我們是愛人。我們愛農產品市場。我們愛小型的家庭式農場。我們談論區域性食品。我們吃有機食品。然后當你建議這些食品會保證未來的美食,某人在某地站起來說,"我說哥們,我愛粉色的火烈鳥,但是你怎么讓這個世界填飽肚子?你怎么為這個世界填飽肚子?"

Can I be honest? I don't love that question. No, not because we already produce enough calories to more than feed the world. One billion people will go hungry today. One billion -- that's more than ever before -- because of gross inequalities in distribution, not tonnage. Now, I don't love this question because it's determined the logic of our food system for the last 50 years.

我可以坦誠點嗎?我不喜歡你的問題。不,不只是因為我們已經生產了遠遠超出我們這個世界需要的卡路里。今天十億人還是在餓著肚子。十億--那比以前任何時候都多--根本原因在于總體上的分配不平衡,不是按噸位算的。我不喜歡這個問題的真正原因是因為他擬定了一個食物系統的邏輯,一個存在于過去的50年中的邏輯。

Feed grain to herbivores, pesticides to monocultures, chemicals to soil, chicken to fish, and all along agribusiness has simply asked, "If we're feeding more people more cheaply, how terrible could that be?" That's been the motivation, it's been the justification: it's been the business plan of American agriculture. We should call it what it is: a business in liquidation, a business that's quickly eroding ecological capital that makes that very production possible. That's not a business, and it isn't agriculture.

把谷物喂給食草動物,把農藥給單品種作物,化學品給土壤,把雞給魚,然后各類農業可以簡單的問,“如果我們用更便宜的方法養活更多的人,有什么不對的呢?”那就是一個動機。它已經變得合乎情理了。它是一個商業計劃屬于美國農業的。我們應該指出它的真面目,一個在清算的生意,一個迅速侵蝕的生意生態資本使得這種生產成為可能。那不是一個生意,它也不是農業。

Our breadbasket is threatened today, not because of diminishing supply, but because of diminishing resources. Not by the latest combine and tractor invention, but by fertile land; not by pumps, but by fresh water; not by chainsaws, but by forests; and not by fishing boats and nets, but by fish in the sea.

今天我們的食品正在受到威脅,不是因為正在遞減的供給,而是因為正在遞減的資源,不是靠最新的嫁接技術與拖拉機的發明,而是肥沃的土壤,不是靠水泵,而是靠新鮮的水源,不是靠電鋸,而是靠森林,不是靠漁船和漁網,而是靠海洋里的魚。

Want to feed the world? Let's start by asking: How are we going to feed ourselves? Or better: How can we create conditions that enable every community to feed itself? (Applause) To do that, don't look at the agribusiness model for the future. It's really old, and it's tired. It's high on capital, chemistry and machines, and it's never produced anything really good to eat. Instead, let's look to the ecological model. That's the one that relies on two billion years of on-the-job experience.

想要喂飽這個世界?讓我們開始問:我們怎么去喂養我們自己?或者更好的,我們怎么去建立一種環境它可以讓每一個團體去養活自己?(掌聲)要做到那樣,不要指望未來沿用現在的農業模型。它已經過時了,而且很疲勞。因為它過度依賴資本,化學,和機械,而且它生產不出來真正的好食品。取而代之,讓我們看看生態模式。它存在了20億年同時具有實戰經驗。

Look to Miguel, farmers like Miguel. Farms that aren't worlds unto themselves; farms that restore instead of deplete; farms that farm extensively instead of just intensively; farmers that are not just producers, but experts in relationships. Because they're the ones that are experts in flavor, too. And if I'm going to be really honest, they're a better chef than I'll ever be. You know, I'm okay with that, because if that's the future of good food, it's going to be delicious.

看看米格爾,看看像米格爾這樣的農民,不只屬于他們自己的農場,它自我恢復,而不是消耗,廣義的農場取代只是狹義的,農民不再只是生產者,而是關系專家,因為他們同時也是口味上的專家。而且如果要我說實話,他們是比我更好的廚師。你們知道,我完全認同這樣的事,因為如果未來的優質食品是這樣的,它們肯定會是非常美味的。

Thank you. (Applause)

謝謝你們。(掌聲)?

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